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Why Shell's Marketing is so Disgusting

bcglorf says...

@newtboy,

Walking backwards to simplify, my main point is that simply blaming ALL fossil fuel usage on the company providing the fossil fuel is stupid and misleading in the extreme. We don't see millions of people willingly abandoning fossil fuels and living in abject poverty to save the world, instead they are all very willing and eagerly buying them and this video lets all those people off the hook. This video lets everybody keep using fossil fuels, and at the same time pointing the finger at Shell and saying it's all their fault. It's an extremely detrimental piece of disinformation.

"explain what, specifically, I claimed that's not supported by the science."
-Complete collapse of the food web
-Wars over hundreds of millions or billions of refugees
-Loss of most farm land and hundreds of major cities to the sea
-Loss of well over 1/2 the producers of O2
-Eventual clouds of hydrogen sulfide from the ocean covering the land
-Runaway greenhouse cycles making the planet uninhabitable for thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions of years

Why Shell's Marketing is so Disgusting

newtboy says...

No sir.
I even mentioned one group in America that never adopted petroleum...Amish...and I would counter your assertion with the fact that most people on earth don't live using oil, they're too poor, not too fortunate. 20-30 years ago, most Chinese had never been in a car or a commercial store bigger than a local vegetable stand.

Both customers and non customers are the victims.
Using (or selling) a product that clearly pollutes the air, land, and sea is immoral.

Yes, it's like our business is predicated on rebuilding wrecked cars overnight which we do by using massive amounts of meth. Sure, our products are death traps, sure, we lied about both our business practices and the safety of our product, sure, our teeth and brains are mush....but our business has been successful and allowed us to have 10 kids (8 on welfare, two adopted out), and if we quit using meth they'll starve and fight over scraps. That's proof meth is good and moral and you're mistaken to think otherwise. Duh.

Yes, we overpopulated, outpacing the planet's ability to support us by far...but instead of coming to terms with that and changing, many think we should just wring the juice out of the planet harder and have more kids. I think those people are narcissistic morons, we don't need more little yous. Sadly, we are well beyond the tipping point, even if no more people are ever born, those alive are enough to finish the biosphere's destruction. Guaranteed if they think like you seem to.

Um, really? Complete collapse of the food web isn't catastrophic?
Wars over hundreds of millions or billions of refugees aren't catastrophic? (odd because the same people who think that are incensed over thousands of Syrians, Africans, and or South and Central American refugees migrating)
Massive food shortage isn't catastrophic?
Loss of most farm land and hundreds of major cities to the sea isn't catastrophic?
Loss of corals, where >25% of ocean species live, and other miniscule organisms that are the base of the ocean food web isn't catastrophic?
Loss of well over 1/2 the producers of O2, and organisms that capture carbon, isn't catastrophic?
Eventual clouds of hydrogen sulfide from the ocean covering the land, poisoning 99%+ of all life isn't catastrophic?
Runaway greenhouse cycles making the planet uninhabitable for thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions of years isn't catastrophic?
Loss of access to water for billions of people isn't catastrophic?
I think you aren't paying attention to the outcomes here, and may be thinking only of the scenarios estimated for 2030-2050 which themselves are pretty scary, not the unavoidable planetary disaster that comes after the feedback loops are all fully in play. Try looking more long term....and note that every estimate of how fast the cycles collapse/reverse has been vastly under estimated....as two out of hundreds of examples, Greenland is melting faster than it was estimated to melt in 2075....far worse, frozen methane too.

You can reject the science, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes you the ass who knowingly gambles with the planet's ability to support humans or other higher life forms based on nothing more than denial.

Edit: We are at approximately 1C rise from pre industrial records today, expected to be 1.5C in as little as 11 years. Even the IPCC (typically extremely conservative in their estimates) states that a 2C rise will trigger feedbacks that could exceed 12C. Many are already in full effect, like glacial melting, methane hydrate melting, peat burning, diatom collapse, coral collapse, forest fires, etc. It takes an average of 25 years for what we emit today to be absorbed (assuming the historical absorption cycles remain intact, which they aren't). That means we are likely well past the tipping point where natural cycles take over no matter what we do, and what we're doing is increasing emissions.

bcglorf said:

You asked at least 3 questions and all fo them very much leading questions.

To the first 2, my response is that it's only the extremely fortunate few that have the kind of financial security and freedom to make those adjustments, so lucky for them.

Your last question is:
do those companies get to continue to abdicate their responsibility, pawning it off on their customers?

Your question demands as part of it's base assumption that fossil fuels are inherently immoral or something and customers are clearly the victims. I reject that.

The entirety of the modern western world stands atop the usage of fossil fuels. If we cut ALL fossil fuel usage out tomorrow, mass global starvation would follow within a year, very nasty wars would rapidly follow that.

The massive gains in agricultural production we've seen over the last 100 years is extremely dependent on fossil fuels. Most importantly for efficiency in equipment run on fossil fuels, but also importantly on fertilizers produced by fossil fuels. Alternatives to that over the last 100 years did not exist. If you think Stalin and Mao's mass starvations were ugly, just know that the disruptions they made to agriculture were less severe than the gain/loss represented by fossil fuels.

All that is to state that simply saying don't use them because the future consequences are bad is extremely naive. The amount of future harm you must prove is coming is enormous, and the scientific community as represented by the IPCC hasn't even painted a worst case scenario so catastrophic.

Who Needs Wingsuits?

newtboy says...

No, sorry, ditching meat and dairy didn't cure his arthritis. It's likely that swimming and training to freedive relieved his symptoms by effectively oxygenating his blood more efficiently and to higher levels. There is no cure for arthritis.

Free diving requires excessively high iron levels in your blood, which is exceptionally difficult to achieve on a vegetarian or vegan diet. That's why very few top ranked freedivers (or other top ranked athletes) are vegan instead of all of them.

True, vegetables don't have cholesterol, but poly and monounsaturated fats they do contain can still raise human cholesterol levels when over consumed. It's just not as simple as plant good, meat bad.

No clue where you get this 20% boost of O2 use efficiency claim....have any references or even explanations? It contradicts everything I find that shows only around 1/2 the iron found in those few vegetables that contain iron is useable by the body unlike iron found in dark and red meats.

transmorpher said:

Interesting backstory to this diver Stig Pryds - like many other people , he cured his arthritis by ditching meat and dairy.

He's supposed to be in a wheelchair and on medication.

He started swimming as therapy for his arthritis too, and turns out he's the worlds best freediver......which no doubt makes him talented, but when you think about how not eating cholesterol (only in meat/dairy/eggs/fish) will clean out your arteries, it's no wonder his blood is able to stay oxygenated for longer periods. Along with eating greens, he'll be around 20% more efficient at utilizing oxygen and creating energy.

I wonder if he'll be in the upcoming James Cameron's Game Changers documentary.

A Single Life

Building a Fish Tower in a pond

newtboy says...

The pond water circulates through the open bottom, so the O2 levels are the same as the pond.
Yes, mine got dirty and had to be removed and cleaned monthly. Since the fish didn't use it, that only lasted 3-4 months before I gave up. I used a tall glass vase about 10-12" wide and 2 1/2' tall. Maybe if I put floating food in it they'll use it, I'll probably try again when the water is warm enough to go in the pond and set it up, they look neat.

ant said:

Do they have enough oxygen and doesn't that get dirty fast like algae?

*music *pets *nature *engineering

Smarter Every Day -- Why you put on your oxygen mask first

worthwords says...

There was a programme about the death penalty hosted by Michael Portillo a few years back which pondered weather hypoxia was the more humane way of executing prisoners - it's weird that your brain can be in such a state of euphoria and intoxication when your survival depends on something as basic as correcting o2 levels.

Flaming Bottle Rockets - Tales from the Prep Room

newtboy says...

I actually did this as my final chemistry experiment in High School. We used rubbing alcohol (75 and 99%) and got many different results.
Sometimes it would be a jet. Sometimes it would make a 'plane' of fire that hovered 1/2 way down the bottle. Sometimes it made a ball of fire that bounced below the neck. Sometimes it flashed repeatedly, igniting the entire bottle at once and repeating. Different results could be gained by rolling the bottle around, spreading the fuel and creating a denser vapor load, or blowing O2 into the bottle before lighting.
We used a glass 5 gallon bottle (it got HOT). I was surprised he only seemed to get the jet reaction.
(EDIT: I forgot, at the end the teacher brought out some liquid ether for me to try. Everyone (except me) stepped back for that one, afraid it might blow the bottle up)
Almost downvote for the last one...WTF guy?

Brazil drought linked to Amazon deforestation - BBC News

newtboy says...

Unless you're talking about giant redwoods, which take moisture out of the air more than out of the ground, oddly. They have to live in fog belts in order to get enough moisture up to the top.
And unless you're talking about at night, when trees do aerobic respiration, and use O2 to make some CO2.

notarobot said:

When a forest breathes in, it takes carbon out of the air. When it breathes out, it releases oxygen and moisture (which is drawn up from the ground.) If there is enough forest, the moisture actually changes the local weather conditions.

Nick Mason, David Gilmour, & Roger Waters BTS: 02 Arena 2011

Nick Mason, David Gilmour, & Roger Waters BTS: 02 Arena 2011

Paul Gerke as Ron Burgundy

Pagosa // A Timelapse of The Colorado Wildfires

Be more dog!

Burning magnesium in dry ice

Retroboy says...

Yup, but for two big factors - CO2 in the depression would be heavier than the O2 in the surrounding air so the O2 wouldn't naturally flow in to displace it, and the instant the igniting torch hit the depression, the heat would have started mass-producing local CO2 from the sublimating block. So, no O2 in the area unless it was somehow broken apart from the CO2 in the block itself.

Chaucer said:

wouldnt oxygen just seep in through the gap between the lid and the block?

Who Says Mermaids Aren't Real?



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